top of page
Writer's picturePuppy Steps

Poodles, and doodles with their F1, F2, F3, and occasionally a "b". What does it all mean?

Updated: Nov 30, 2022


Cavapoo puppy, cockapoo puppy, poodles and doodles

Cockapoo, Cavapoo, Maltipoo, Labradoodle, Yorkiepoo, Colliepoo to name a few. F1, F2, F3, F1b, F2b. When you look at the puppy and dog market today it seems like almost every other dog is some sort of poodle mix. Any of the doodles or poo mixes is a poodle cross of some variety. But how easy is it all to understand and what exactly are you looking at? In this article, I'll try to explain it in simple terms and give you a little bit of background information on the subject.


A little bit about the Poodle itself.


I'll start by giving you a little bit of background on the poodle itself, after all, they're at the center of the whole doodle boom.


Poodles come in 3 sizes. Standard being the largest at over 15" at the shoulder. The miniature is the middle size, between 11 and 15 inches to the shoulder and the toy is up to 10 inches to the shoulder.


Poodles in the standard form are one of the oldest pure breed dogs with the miniature and toy size coming about much more recently. Whilst the poodle is commonly believed to be a French dog, where it is known as a "Caniche" or "Chien Canard", which translates to "duck-dog", its origins are actually in Germany. The name Poodle comes from the German "Pudelhund", or "Pudel" which in English means "Puddle" or "to splash about" and "Hund" in German means "dog" and gives you a clue as to what the original poodles were used for. If you've not already guessed it they were a retrieving breed that excelled in water retrieves.


Poodles were originally a hunting breed with tight curly coat with excellent waterproof properties
Poodles were originally a retrieving breed

As a very intelligent breed with excellent swimming abilities and a crisp, curly coat designed to protect against the elements the poodle was and still is an excellent water retriever. The iconic "Poodle clip" that I would associate with the show ring came about when hunters would cut the coat in such a way as to help the poodle move through the water more easily whilst the patches of hair left on the poodle would protect the vital organs and joints from the cold.


It is this low shedding coat, their intelligence, and general joy for life that has made the poodle crosses so popular and resulted in so many "designer" breeds.


Poodles, Doodles, and other crosses.


With the increase in popularity of poodle crosses it is only right that we talk about the terms we see associated with them and probably one of the biggest myths I hear when people talk about them, "Poodles and the crosses don't shed their coat". This is not true. They are classed as low shed breeds and the more poodle they have in the mix then as a general rule, the lower shed they will be. Poodles and poodle cross still need to be groomed regularly and still need to have their coat clipped occasionally. If they don't they can and will matt and need the matting clipped out near the roots for the coat to start to grow again and to keep the dog happy.


cockerpoo coat type, straight, curly, wavy.
Coat type can vary a great deal

The coat type will vary depending again on which cross is used but also how much poodle is in the mix. If you want a more curly, poodle type coat then you need to look for more poodle to be in the mix. When crossing 2 different breeds the outcome can vary massively. You may get a litter that all looks the same or they may all look totally different and nothing like either parent. You may get a spaniel looking dog with a poodle coat or you may get a poodle looking dog with a straight spaniel type coat, it's not as simple as crossing 2 dogs together for the first time and getting a predictable outcome, but it can be. Let me explain.


F1, F2, F1b, F2b, genetics, and what it all means.


Whenever we cross two different breeds together to create what is essentially a hybrid we use the terms F1, F2, and so on. I'll explain a little more and for the sake of the example I will use a cocker spaniel and a poodle as the example but it is the same regardless of which breed of dog we cross with the poodle.


The first time we breed a cocker spaniel and a poodle together we get cockerpoos which are known as F1's or first generation. The puppies from this litter can look like either parent in coat type and appearance or as a mixture between the 2. There is no way to guarantee what they will look like as genetics is a very complicated subject and completely random. But at the F1 stage, the appearance of the puppies can range massively from dog to dog and litter to litter.


If we breed an F1 with an F1 we get F2's, or second generation. Now with the F2's the coat type is slightly more predictable but still not guaranteed. If you breed a curly F1 with a curly F1 there is a good chance that you will get the majority of puppies as curly F2's, but there is an effect known as the "granddad effect" where some or all of the puppies could look more like one of the grandparents, i.e a poodle or a spaniel or a mix.


F2 to F2 will give F3's and again the outcome of the litters becomes slightly more predictable with each generation, depending on the parents bred from.


If however, we breed an F1 to an F2 this generation is known as F2's as the number moves up by one from the lowest number. So F2 to F3 gives F2's. F1 to F3 gives F2's and so on.


You may occasionally see a small "b" attached to some of the terms, for example, F1b or F2b. In simple terms, this means that the parents have been bred "back" to one of the original breeds, in this case, a poodle or a cocker spaniel.


So for example an F1 cockerpoo bred back to a poodle would be F1b's and would generally give a tighter, curlier poodle type coat as there is a higher percentage of poodle genetics in the mix. Equally an F1 bred "back" to a spaniel would also be F1b's but may have a straighter spaniel type coat.


Anytime a "b" is in the mix of F1b, F2b, and so on and this is bred to another cockapoo then the b stays. The same rules apply for the F-number ie F1 or F2 etc but they would have a "b" on the end. So F1b bred to F1 gives F2b's. F2b bred to F2 gives F3b's and so on, much the same as if we look at the explanation for the generation numbers above.


I hope this gives a little more of an understanding of the Poodle, the poodle crosses, and how the generations of each cross are numbered, it can all be a little bit daunting and often misunderstood at times but with a little bit more knowledge it will hopefully help you get to grips with the poodle cross and some of the terms which go with it.


We have a YoutTube video explaining the subject here: https://youtu.be/Xruqe29ZgKw



FAQ's about dogslifedogfood


Learn more about Puppy steps and their puppy finding and training service.

12,728 views2 comments

Recent Posts

See All

What our clients say

Trained Labrador Puppy. Black Labrador puppy which is a trained dog after completing puppy training at Puppy Steps

Lucy Lovell

"I was initially apprehensive, but we've been so happy with all Puppy Steps services and wouldn't hesitate to recommend Andy and his team! I followed the Fb posts for a few months, asked lots of questions and when the time was right I spoke to Andy at length and booked a place to find a puppy and train her. His experience helped to find a good litter and he helped us choose our puppy via video clips.

At 7 months now Frida is the calmest dog, with a wonderful temperament thanks to great training - a joy to have in our family. We'll definitely go back to Puppy Steps if we ever decide to have another puppy."

Buy a trained Trained Cocker Spaniel puppy. Trained odgs are available as part of our trained puppy programme.

Kirsteen Binnie

"I contacted Andy @ puppy steps after reading the reviews and testimonials on the website. I spoke to Andy a number of times at length as I wasn’t sure the type of puppy that would suit our family. Andy found and trained our beautiful cocker spaniel Harper. She is a delight. Obedient, calm and super friendly. From day one everyone comments on how calm and well behaved she is. Slept all night from day one with no accidents. I would recommend Andy and his team in a heartbeat. I have called Andy since to get advice and guidance and he is always happy to help. Harper is nearly 8 months now and the best decision we ever made."

 

Buying a trained dog. Clients collect their trained puppy and after receiving a handover on how to continue puppy training they take their puppy home.

Linda and Mike, Aoife's owners

We have wanted our own dog for many years but with both of us working full time, it just wasn't possible. A mutual friend told me about Andy, so I contacted him to ask about the unique service he was offering. We had two in depth telephone conversations about our lifestyle, which breed would suit us, his experience with dogs, and the training he was offering etc. Yesterday we went to view one of Andy's puppies, a little black Cocker Spaniel. She was absolutely adorable, so tiny but full of beans. Andy is extremely knowledgable, he answered all our questions, and gave us plenty of advice and encouragement. We spent some time with Andy and his wife Lucy and two beautiful children, Harry and Libby. They made us feel very much at home, they are both so easy to talk to, even though it was our first meeting it felt like we had known them for ever. Andy is a great person, so professional, with extremely high principles. There was no pressure to adopt the puppy, we all needed to make sure it was the correct thing for all concerned. Fortunately they must have liked us too, because Andy and Lucy agreed that we were going to be responsible dog owners, who would give their puppy the home it deserved. We're collecting our puppy now named Aoife (pronounced - eefa) at the beginning of December. 
Andy is offering an exceptional service, his passion and enthusiasm is phenomenal, and I would thoroughly recommend Andy to anyone who thought they couldn't take on a puppy. Exciting times ahead!!

Opening Hours and Contact

Monday 9:00 - 18:30
Tuesday 9:00 - 18:30
Wednesday 9:00 - 18:30
Thursday 9:00 - 18:30
Friday 9:00 - 18:30
Saturday 9:00 - 17:00
Sunday 10:00 - 15:00

We are proud to be able to share our passion with you and help so many people to achieve what they didn't think was possible.

We are grateful for the opportunity to offer our expertise and knowledge to help you on your journey with your dog, from puppy selection and basic obedience, through to adulthood.

Together we can achieve your goal.


 

Locations

We currently have 2 branches. One is located 5 minutes from Junction 31 of the M1, near Sheffield.

 

Kiveton Park

  Sheffield

 South Yorkshire,

    S26 5PL

The other is near Chorley, in Lancashire, close to both the M6 and the M61 motorway. network.

bottom of page